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abujazar 1 minutes ago [-]
Almost all of my iCloud relayed addresses are already @privaterelay.appleid.com, and they've been working perfectly. So I don't expect this to change any time soon.
trollbridge 6 minutes ago [-]
In the flip side, someone who blocks private.iCloud.com will block the ability to do SSO with Apple, thereby cutting themselves off from Apple’s ecosystem.
jawiggins 2 hours ago [-]
> If you use iCloud+ and Hide My Email, there is still time to generate more aliases on @icloud.com as the change has not yet landed and the rate limit for creating aliases is at least 30 per hour.
Part of the reason to use Hide My Email was that it made keeping myself private hassle-free. Making a system to pre-generate values and then catalog them for later use is quite the hassle.
c7b 54 minutes ago [-]
If you don't mind trusting another company with forwarding your emails, it's definitely less hassle to set up an equivalent service for yourself.
LordDragonfang 36 minutes ago [-]
If you mean "set up an equivalent service" under your own domain, that's both less private and more likely to be blocked; there are a lot of services which, unfortunately, only allow sign-ups from big, well-known domains.
wartijn_ 26 minutes ago [-]
Are there really? I don't think I've ever encountered such a service in all the years I've been using an email address under my own domain.
And blocking every email address that's not from a big provider means blocking basically everyone who tries to sign up with their company email, which might not be great for business.
xigoi 2 minutes ago [-]
I recently tried signing up for DeepSeek using my custom-domain e-mail address and the website said the domain is “not supported”.
Hnrobert42 25 minutes ago [-]
Nah. I have hosted my domain for 17 years on google and then fastmail. The hosting is harder than private relay, although not too hard.
But I have only had maybe 3 services ever reject my domain, and those were because the domain contains a number.
snark42 12 minutes ago [-]
I've had some reject my e-mail address because it contains their company name. REI was one (ie it wouldn't allow rei@domain.com but would accept reicoop@domain.com)
js2 1 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
theshackleford 8 minutes ago [-]
I mean none of this is accurate, but sure.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
Yep, but I still generated some for myself just in case and fellow hackers can do the same if they want to.
iCloud+ was the best $1 / month custom domain email and email alias service with 100GB of E2EE cloud drive.
Obviously it will be sad to see it enshittified for seemingly no reason.
reaperducer 1 hours ago [-]
myself just in case and fellow hackers
If you were a hacker, you'd have your own domain.
The bar for calling oneself a "hacker" gets lower each day.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
You could've at least checked my profile...
Problem is that using of own domain is creating huge privacy and cybersecurity risk since you can track all the person profiles across all the databases ever leaked.
Its nice as vanity item, but it's better not to use same domain across banks, online forums and porn sites. ;-)
giancarlostoro 2 hours ago [-]
If your website will block me out because I used a privacy friendly email, I want nothing to do with your website.
abirch 2 minutes ago [-]
I frequently buy a domain that I think is funny and use that to forward all my emails to my main email account. It's trivial to do from Cloudflare. Then after that 1 year is up, my domain goes away and so does all of the spam.
muse900 2 hours ago [-]
Yes but not always applicable unfortunately… e.g. the other day I was in Italy, I needed to park on the publicly available parking which was paid to the municipality.
No other parking available anywhere near in 30 mins walking distance. (paid or free)
I had to download a 3rd party app that asked me to register. This app isn’t by the Italian government, it’s affiliated though.
So in that situation, I want nothing to do with your website or app, because I wouldn’t able to park.
ivanjermakov 1 hours ago [-]
Have exactly the same situation with parking in Italy. Having a private company operating all paid parking on an island is not very healthy.
drnick1 53 minutes ago [-]
Can you not pay with cash or card anywhere? What if you don't have a "smart" phone? I would categorically refuse to park anywhere that requires running a proprietary app on my device. Fortunately, in the States at least, I have not encountered such a place yet.
cassianoleal 49 minutes ago [-]
In the UK, I believe parking companies need to have a way to pay without the app but it's usually so bloody inconvenient that it's about the same as requiring it.
calvinmorrison 52 minutes ago [-]
Essentially too bad. Look at the parkmobile disaster.
ABS 46 minutes ago [-]
you can pay at the parking meters directly, no need for a 3rd party app
vinni2 2 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately sometimes we are at some specific provider’s mercy for whatever reason like lack of appropriate alternatives.
MoonWalk 2 hours ago [-]
COUGHredditCOUGH
al_borland 59 minutes ago [-]
I think Reddit falls under this category.
> If your website will block me out because I used a privacy friendly email, I want nothing to do with your website.
SV_BubbleTime 2 hours ago [-]
IDK I’ve appreciated Reddit killing off good features like old version, putting a time-lock banner on mobile while logged out, trying to block VPNs when logged out, etc.
I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
What is insane to me is how few people realize their stock has a higher P/E than nVidia… and it isn’t because of some bullshit minor AI data deals. It’s a youth-forward narrative machine, and everyone knows it.
pjerem 1 hours ago [-]
FWIW, old.reddit.com is still there and working
lenerdenator 28 minutes ago [-]
> I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
If the future's your oyster for what happens to Reddit, why stop there? If it's bought by somebody, that implies that Spez gets an amount of money that is greater than $0.00. Ideally, we avoid such a grim and unjust outcome. We want it to be made effectively worthless so he goes broke.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
RedReader still works. For now.
1 hours ago [-]
fg137 10 minutes ago [-]
Didn't really have a choice with openrouter. I ended up using "Hide My Email" which gave me an icloud.com, which will likely no longer work according to this article.
Bender 1 hours ago [-]
I ran into this with an NVMO mobile provider. They did not like my personal email domains (assorted .net and .org) so I nagged their customer support until they manually added it. Their marketing team happily emails my personal domains once added. Some day this will probably cause a problem but my goal is to eventually get rid of my cell phone either way.
reaperducer 1 hours ago [-]
I ran into this with an NVMO mobile provider.
As of about six months ago, AT&T's web site would not accept email addresses without a three-character TLD. I had to get a customer service person on the phone to manually change my address.
badc0ffee 17 minutes ago [-]
Do you mean it was failing with a >3 character TLD?
toast0 36 minutes ago [-]
Even .us ??? Pretty sure I used my usual domain (enslaves.us) with them for wireless and california landline and u-verse.
joeyhage 1 hours ago [-]
Completely agree - have you encountered this before? The Gmail plus sign alias trick has been widely known for a long time and, to my knowledge, still works well today. It would be easy enough for websites to either block + in gmail addresses or instead grab the true email.
cloudfudge 12 minutes ago [-]
Some sites that block "+" in email addresses are actually just doing it out of incompetence. My credit union, for example, will actually accept an address with a "+" in it, but nothing will work because some broken bit of web 1.0 plumbing along the way converted it to a space (it shows up that way on my profile page). I wouldn't be surprised to see " " on my printed bank statements.
SXX 47 minutes ago [-]
Gmail also have "googlemail.com" alias and you can split your username with dots since they dont count like "user@gmail.com" and "u.s.e.r@gmail.com" are the same thing,
Nothing of it solves privacy though.
hamdingers 27 minutes ago [-]
Great. If you insist on giving me a fake email, your business is probably a liability I don't want anyway.
Of course this is industry-dependent (I'm in payments processing) and not every business should have this posture, but being able to distinguish between users who are going out of their way to be anonymous and users who aren't is a useful signal.
danudey 21 minutes ago [-]
> If you insist on giving me a fake email, your business is probably a liability I don't want anyway
It's not a fake e-mail, it's a legitimate e-mail that you can send e-mail to and the user will receive, which has to be created by a paying iCloud user and not an anonymous rando off the internet.
I'd be interested to know what downsides, if any, you see for a website to accept a private e-mail address like this. Do you have a legitimate complaint about these sorts of e-mails? Again, given that private relay isn't an 'anonymous e-mail service' (it's still tied to your iCloud account so spam, etc. shouldn't be any more of an issue) but merely an 'anonymous to the person you're giving the e-mail to' service.
If your actual complaint is 'if you insist on giving me an e-mail that you can revoke unilaterally making me unable to contact you against your wishes, and which cannot be associated with other user data from other sources to build a profile of you, then you're not worth having as a customer' then that's a separate complaint - and one that means I want nothing to do with your website.
cloudfudge 19 minutes ago [-]
There's nothing "fake" about the email. It's just an alias made specifically for each recipient.
x0x0 59 minutes ago [-]
I used to run a hybrid mobile app + webapp company.
Private emails regularly lead to awful customer service interactions because people cannot tell us the email they used to register. Fastmail at least is off the beaten path enough that people probably can understand. Apple, especially using sign in with Apple, is horrid. And not just people unable to tell us the email; they then create multiple accounts; try to sign in on web and use their actual email and then have 2 accounts and flip shit that their stuff is gone; etc. Oh, and regularly blame us for their confusion.
trollbridge 31 minutes ago [-]
It’s up to the app architect to make a way to make this work, and to stop using emails as anything other than a UUID type of token
12 minutes ago [-]
HelloUsername 1 hours ago [-]
If your website needs an email address at all.. otherwise just use null@null.null, if it accepts and doesn't require a authentication code
jonotime 28 minutes ago [-]
Pro tip for doing something like this without apple. Buy or get a cheap domain name. Create a subdomain on it and have it catch and forward all messages to you when sent to that sub. For example:
nytimes@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
anything-else@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
You dont even need to materialize aliases at all.
shoo_pl 12 minutes ago [-]
The problem is if someone figures it out and starts sending you spam to {random}@domain.tld. That's when you will need to sit down and start creating actual aliases for all those used email addresses and stop the catch-all forwarding:)
Also, another downside is that you will loose privacy by using your own domain.
And the lack of privacy makes targeted scam/phishing more likely, and targeted scam is the one we are most susceptible to.
All in all, I am not saying this is bad idea, in fact I am doing it myself, just pointing out this is not so black and white.
Using iCloud solves those problems, but puts you at risk of getting your account banned and loosing access to those emails, so there is that.
Probably best way to deal with it is to get dedicated email domain with a bunch of your friends, and hook it up with something like SimpleLogin. But that's gets complicated quickly ;)
cube00 11 minutes ago [-]
I've found using a subdomain helps with that, spammers will try everything@domain.tld but won't bother trying to brute force subdomains.
However be warned some surprisingly large websites don't support subdomains, for example eBay will silently send user@sub.domain.tld to user@domain.tld and you'll only figure it out by looking at your server logs for rejected mail.
jedberg 11 minutes ago [-]
I’ve been doing this for years. It works fine and it’s fun to see who is selling your email.
But keep good records!!
It gets really awkward when you’re trying to recover an account and can’t remember what custom email you used.
fg137 11 minutes ago [-]
Doesn't work when some service providers only allow email addresses that are on a whitelist of domains. And I have run into more than a few.
switz 24 minutes ago [-]
I do this. The awkward thing is when I am in person or on the phone and have to explain that my customer email address is [their_business_name]@my_weird_domain.tld
But the people usually just nod along.
The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
cube00 16 minutes ago [-]
> The only awkward thing is when I am in person or on the phone and have to explain that my customer email address
I had one small business aggressively threaten me that they fully owned their business name and I wasn't allowed to use it in my email address.
My solution was to keep my wonderful aliases and dump them. If a business is concerned but nice about it I'll offer an alternative such as plumber@
> The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
If you have your own domain most mail providers don't care what username@ you use on your sent mail so you shouldn't need any additional mailboxes (especially if they already offer inbound catch all)
I also use the ReplayAsOriginalRecipientUp [1] extension in Thunderbird which takes the recipient address and puts it as the sender for ongoing communication.
"Sorry for the misunderstand. My new email is yourcompanysucksinmyopinion@example.com."
chuckadams 20 minutes ago [-]
They act as if I discovered fire when I give them a plussed address.
snark42 21 minutes ago [-]
You can proxy responses with a ton of e-mail clients, even Gmail supports it once you verify you can get a message sent to that address.
shoo_pl 17 minutes ago [-]
Not really, this only works for other emails hosted by Gmail (including Workspaces) or if you supply SMPT that will send those emails. If you use simple email forwarding from your DNS provider, you don't have SMPT server to give to gmail:/
phi0 2 minutes ago [-]
Google will happily send from smtp.gmail.com, after verifying that you can receive mail on it.
airstrike 15 minutes ago [-]
sometimes I'm lazy and I just have it as spam@firstlast.com or noreply@firstlast.com and they get quite puzzled
Henchman21 18 minutes ago [-]
So I guess I'll take a moment and plug my email provider, Fastmail. Their integration with 1Password to enable creation of Masked Email at account creation time is really fantastic! I have several hundred of these at this point, it's made my digital life appreciably better.
But to the point of forward-in-only -- I use the fastmail web client and iOS client. Both of these respond using the Masked Email address if you choose to respond to an email. In fact I can choose any of my masked email addressed as I am composing mail to initial communication from that address.
In short, "it just works". I really can't say enough good things about Fastmail!
quinncom 23 minutes ago [-]
Gmail will block messages that fail SPF/DMARC alignment unless the forwarding mail server supports SRS.
LoganDark 7 minutes ago [-]
Services like DeepSeek have an email domain whitelist rather than blacklist. So creating your own domain just guarantees a lockout
quotz 18 minutes ago [-]
I do something similar, use an open source service called addy.io, bought a domain but you can also use their domains too, and each website has a separate login i create through bitwarden with the addy integration.
joeyhage 13 minutes ago [-]
addy.io and proton pass are both great, affordable options. (Proton pass has a built in hide-my-email feature that supports custom domains)
mortenjorck 2 hours ago [-]
> Long story short: now both Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email aliases are going to be issued on the @private.icloud.com subdomain. This makes it much easier to ban all aliases without affecting non-relay mailboxes on iCloud mail.
Could someone clarify why having Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email on the same domain would make a blanket ban easier rather than harder? What am I missing?
w10-1 2 hours ago [-]
Before, the emails were "me@icloud.com", the default for all apple users. There was no way to distinguish normal emails from generated private emails.
Now, they will be "blah@private.icloud.com", so it will be easy to ban the generated/private email that reduces the ability to associate logins across services.
Unclear why Apple would shoot themselves in this way; I hope it's not Ternus complying with anti-privacy.
snowe2010 27 minutes ago [-]
But it’s not? Like if they block that subdomain, they will completely block Sign in with Apple.
pokstad 11 minutes ago [-]
You can use Hide My Email independently from Sign in with Apple.
utilize1808 1 hours ago [-]
maybe to avoid getting their legitimate email servers banned by other servers since they host (i.e. being exploited) a growing number of spam accounts.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
You cant send mail from Hide My Email aliases. They are only work one way.
I think I've also seen this in Mail.app but that's not shown on this page.
SXX 34 minutes ago [-]
Wow my bad I wasnt aware its possible. I remember someone in HN comments complaining about it being one way only back in 2024.
UPD: apperently this supposedly only work if someone message you first. So you still cant spam from aliases.
reaperducer 1 hours ago [-]
Now, they will be "blah@private.icloud.com"
I've been in the ecosystem long enough to have .iCloud.com, .me, .mobileme.com, iTunes.com, and probably one or two more addresses all assigned by various Apple services over the years before they started unifying the systems.
They all work, and independently of one another.
I wonder if all the domains will be migrated, and how namespace collisions will be handled.
SXX 25 minutes ago [-]
Apple stated legacy aliases will work as is:
> Existing addresses on the legacy domains will continue to work and forward mail to users without interruption.
gobip 2 hours ago [-]
Apple was generating (something)@icloud.com whenever you used that service.
Now, it will use (something)@private.icloud.com instead. So you can ban this subdomain instantly, knowing people will be "hiding" with this service by default.
It's like blocking anondaddy, simplelogin etc but not protonmail.
BoorishBears 2 hours ago [-]
I guess their thought process is, both alias and non-alias accounts use @icloud.com
You were always able to reserve a normal icloud email address just like you would a GMail account, so banning all icloud email addresses would be banning non-alias Apple customers
That being said, I'm not convinced anyone who wanted to ban aliases couldn't have already. The alias emails look weird enough I'm guessing you could ban them with few false positives.
SXX 2 hours ago [-]
> The alias emails look weird enough I'm guessing you could ban them with few false positives.
While this is true not all of them been weird. Some can be just word + number + word without dots or underscores.
Also blanket banning whole domains is just much easier and already done for temporary emails. No false positives.
Cider9986 2 hours ago [-]
Determined sites could already easily do this. Just detect the patterns used. I agree it's a useless change though.
heave_balks_0g@icloud.com
It shouldn't matter for the sign in with apple because sites are already expressly supporting that.
Email aliasing is hard because you want privacy from a herd of users, but then you're locked into that ecosystem versus a domain you control has no herd, but the upside is no lock-in.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
Not all aliases it generated look like this, some look like these:
viods01crew@icloud.com
methyl.brick1h@icloud.com
In any case fact that some services banned alies is not the reason to make them completely useless instead of making them better.
Apple is one of few companies that ia able to push for this with market share.
tehwebguy 2 hours ago [-]
> Determined sites could already easily do this
They already DO do it, I don't know how they're currently determining it
keane 51 minutes ago [-]
I think the NYT might be one detecting them which is funny because their editorial staff have promoted the use of aliases.
frollogaston 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe they've started seeing sites ban @icloud.com addresses
msdz 39 minutes ago [-]
Which has more market pull: Some web site or Apple?
Barbing 13 minutes ago [-]
Almost surprised it lasted this long but quite disappointing
elcombato 1 hours ago [-]
The rate limit seems to be 20/hour and not 30/hour as mentioned in the article.
SXX 52 minutes ago [-]
Just wait 20 minutes. I generated like 40 in under an hour. No idea what limits are though and how they refresh.
k1next 1 hours ago [-]
For me personally, Hide My Email is binding me to the Apple ecosystem more than iMessage (but I'm European).
Barbing 12 minutes ago [-]
It’s unsettling, you’re either an iCloud customer for life or hundreds of logins could break.
weberer 1 minutes ago [-]
Nothing breaks when you switch. You just can't create more private icloud addresses. I recently switched back to Android and can still use my old icloud logins.
1 hours ago [-]
smth-smth-ai 32 minutes ago [-]
simplelogin from Proton works great, can recommend; for Uber I generate uber.random-word@simplelogin.com, for Slack slack.random-word etc to easily see who leaked my email
getcrunk 1 hours ago [-]
Okay but banning private relay emails would also mean your site is blocking Apple sign in?
9dev 1 hours ago [-]
That was always opt-in from the sites, and many never bothered - me included, because I refuse to pay Apple $99 per year for the privilege to offer easier authentication to their users.
KiDD 1 hours ago [-]
I guess I don't understand the concern... what does it matter if a different domain is used for Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email?
9dev 1 hours ago [-]
Because many sites check the domain part of your email address against a blocklist, which contains entries like trashmail.com to prevent users from signing up with ad-hoc throwaway accounts. They don't want that, because they'd like to get a proper lead they can either track, sell, or reach out to.
Now Hide My Email allowed you to do just that: Create an account with an email that wasn't tied to your identity, and that you could just decommission if you didn't need it anymore. Sites had no way to detect these either, because all of the randomly generated addresses Apple provided you with just ended in @icloud.com, which is also used by tons of regular accounts - so if you blocked this domain, you'd invariably preclude millions of people from your service.
But by separating the domains, sites can simply add private.icloud.com to their trash mail blocklist, preventing the use of Hide My Email, while regular @iCloud.com addresses will continue to work. It makes the entire service useless at once.
snowe2010 24 minutes ago [-]
But that will completely break Sign in with Apple, which no service is ever going to do. I really don’t get the problem here.
LoganDark 4 minutes ago [-]
Most services would never support Sign in with Apple anyway. Honestly most services don't even support OAuth at all
chatmasta 1 hours ago [-]
Right now it’s the same @icloud.com domain as normal personal emails. Now all auto-generated emails will use a separate domain name, so sites can block emails with that domain, without worrying about blocking people’s main personal email.
twobitshifter 1 hours ago [-]
Websites block certain throwaway email domains from signups. The concern is that this will happen with private.icloud.com
A good example of a throwaway email that is now useless because of these blocks is mailinator.com. Originally, you could just make up a random email on the spot like gregsrightfoot@mailinator.com, visit mailinator.com, and get the needed signup verification email. These services autodeleted messages and required no signup so they were a black hole for spam. However websites eventually got wise that their spam wasn’t being seen and started blocking the domain. Mailinator came up with alternative domains and there was a brief back and forth before the throwaway email domains all ended up being blocked.
wxw 2 hours ago [-]
I pay for Fastmail just for masked email and its integration with 1Password.
darknoon 37 minutes ago [-]
I frequently run into scenarios where it won't let me generate the email within 1password on a website, and I have to go to Fastmail and then manually do it. Is this something you have bene able to work around?
nerdjon 2 hours ago [-]
I would bet that doing so would be a pretty quick way to have your app pulled.
They already require that you use Sign in with Apple, I would think that it working fully is also a requirement?
nozzlegear 2 hours ago [-]
You can use Hide My Email on any website though, whereas Sign In with Apple is limited to just those websites and apps that support it. Sign In with Apple isn't nearly as popular on the web, so it's a lot easier to just ban "@private.icloud.com" from your web service there.
layer8 2 hours ago [-]
Hide My Email isn’t particularly related to apps. You can use it on any web form that asks for your email address, or as the sender of any email message you send using Apple Mail.
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vslira 1 hours ago [-]
Where do I sign to show my opposition to this change? Hide My Email has been essential to keep my digital life protected from abusive mail lists and frankly one of the features that make me associate icloud with a premium service
kylehotchkiss 50 minutes ago [-]
Did Hide My Email addresses cause problems for deliverability for actual emails/users on iCloud?
righthand 1 hours ago [-]
Emailfake.com
Fastmail also has wonderful random email functionality you can link up to your Bitwarden client or use the Fastmail API.
risyachka 2 hours ago [-]
Shameless plug - I created a chrome extension that allows to create unique email addresses that forward to your real inbox. It uses Cloudflare email routing, simplifies creating/labeling of new addresses and keeping track of them. Always 1 click away.
The addresses are pre-allocated and recycled when deleted so creating a new one is faster that with Apple's hide my mail.
With cloudflare you can also just setup catch-all and be done wirh it.
I personally doing catch-all already, but problem is that using your own domain for website registration basically gives everyone unique id to eaaily connect all the information that ever been leaked for your accounts and something always gets leaked.
Not a very good idea for privacy.
risyachka 1 hours ago [-]
The biggest upside for me of having separate labelled mailboxes is I can use one, delete it later and never receive mail from it again.
SXX 1 hours ago [-]
My email addresses been public for years and spam was never a big issue.
But yeah it mostly opposite problem I would say - spam filters eat usefull stuff sometimes. Just today I found one more job related email in spam, but its from public mailbox damn.
Privacy is kind a bigger issue and having aliases on icloud is just much more convinient than having 10 accounts.
Terretta 25 minutes ago [-]
Pretty good way to harvest magic links and email codes!
rafram 2 hours ago [-]
Doesn't owning the domain kind of defeat the point?
drnick1 24 minutes ago [-]
Not really, at least if you register the domain anonymously. You get unlimited emails, and I assign one to each website or registration.
doctorpangloss 2 hours ago [-]
email isn't really a decentralized system at all. Google, Microsoft and Amazon own e-mail delivery. Perhaps Google ads customers complained that they could not correlated private @icloud addresses, and we are now witnessing the consequences. What Apple got in exchange from Google, I don't know, I'm sure it is related to their Siri deal.
rafram 2 hours ago [-]
[citation badly needed]
SXX 55 minutes ago [-]
Come on. Most likely this is just a result of some manager pushing for "improvement": "Why we have two different privacy email alias systems? Lets make unified one, save on maintenace and I get promotion".
And might be there just no one remain as owner of feature to explain them why its bad idea.
Razengan 2 hours ago [-]
Oh fuck. I love Hide My Email and it's been the best feature about iCloud ever since it came out.
It's actually useful compared to Gmail's useless "yourrealaddress+alais" that gives away your actual email anyway, and it helped me catch quite a few spammers/data sellers.
Hide My Email addresses already have a peculiar format that others could guess, and some do block those, and there's no reason to add a blatant "private." tag.
This is a win for privacy-intruders, not users, just like Apple's iCloud Keychain API that has allowed Facebook, TikTok etc. to secretly track users across multiple devices and device reinstalls for years.
jjice 1 hours ago [-]
FWIW it's not a gmail thing for privacy, but rather just part of the email spec. RFC 5233 talks about it.
It all dates back to the Andrew Messaging System at CMU, developed in the 1980's. Originally the format was "<username>+<keyword>+<args>@example.net" where the mail server would interpret the keyword and arguments to route the message in whatever unique way that keyword would dictate (e.g. bob+dist+~/mailinglist@example.net would read the file mailinglist in Bob's home directory and deliver the email to addresses listed in it). If the keyword was not recognized, it would just deliver normally. So bob@example.net and bob+alias@example.net were equivalent, and could be used to filter after the fact if desired.
9dev 59 minutes ago [-]
Did the RFC editor get a makeover recently? It looks familiar, but also kinda… polished. Neat.
Part of the reason to use Hide My Email was that it made keeping myself private hassle-free. Making a system to pre-generate values and then catalog them for later use is quite the hassle.
But I have only had maybe 3 services ever reject my domain, and those were because the domain contains a number.
iCloud+ was the best $1 / month custom domain email and email alias service with 100GB of E2EE cloud drive.
Obviously it will be sad to see it enshittified for seemingly no reason.
If you were a hacker, you'd have your own domain.
The bar for calling oneself a "hacker" gets lower each day.
Problem is that using of own domain is creating huge privacy and cybersecurity risk since you can track all the person profiles across all the databases ever leaked.
Its nice as vanity item, but it's better not to use same domain across banks, online forums and porn sites. ;-)
No other parking available anywhere near in 30 mins walking distance. (paid or free)
I had to download a 3rd party app that asked me to register. This app isn’t by the Italian government, it’s affiliated though.
So in that situation, I want nothing to do with your website or app, because I wouldn’t able to park.
> If your website will block me out because I used a privacy friendly email, I want nothing to do with your website.
I want that company devalued and bought by Verizon or AOL to die a Yahoo death.
What is insane to me is how few people realize their stock has a higher P/E than nVidia… and it isn’t because of some bullshit minor AI data deals. It’s a youth-forward narrative machine, and everyone knows it.
If the future's your oyster for what happens to Reddit, why stop there? If it's bought by somebody, that implies that Spez gets an amount of money that is greater than $0.00. Ideally, we avoid such a grim and unjust outcome. We want it to be made effectively worthless so he goes broke.
As of about six months ago, AT&T's web site would not accept email addresses without a three-character TLD. I had to get a customer service person on the phone to manually change my address.
Nothing of it solves privacy though.
Of course this is industry-dependent (I'm in payments processing) and not every business should have this posture, but being able to distinguish between users who are going out of their way to be anonymous and users who aren't is a useful signal.
It's not a fake e-mail, it's a legitimate e-mail that you can send e-mail to and the user will receive, which has to be created by a paying iCloud user and not an anonymous rando off the internet.
I'd be interested to know what downsides, if any, you see for a website to accept a private e-mail address like this. Do you have a legitimate complaint about these sorts of e-mails? Again, given that private relay isn't an 'anonymous e-mail service' (it's still tied to your iCloud account so spam, etc. shouldn't be any more of an issue) but merely an 'anonymous to the person you're giving the e-mail to' service.
If your actual complaint is 'if you insist on giving me an e-mail that you can revoke unilaterally making me unable to contact you against your wishes, and which cannot be associated with other user data from other sources to build a profile of you, then you're not worth having as a customer' then that's a separate complaint - and one that means I want nothing to do with your website.
Private emails regularly lead to awful customer service interactions because people cannot tell us the email they used to register. Fastmail at least is off the beaten path enough that people probably can understand. Apple, especially using sign in with Apple, is horrid. And not just people unable to tell us the email; they then create multiple accounts; try to sign in on web and use their actual email and then have 2 accounts and flip shit that their stuff is gone; etc. Oh, and regularly blame us for their confusion.
nytimes@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
anything-else@mailsub.example.com -> jono@gmail
You dont even need to materialize aliases at all.
Also, another downside is that you will loose privacy by using your own domain.
And the lack of privacy makes targeted scam/phishing more likely, and targeted scam is the one we are most susceptible to.
All in all, I am not saying this is bad idea, in fact I am doing it myself, just pointing out this is not so black and white.
Using iCloud solves those problems, but puts you at risk of getting your account banned and loosing access to those emails, so there is that.
Probably best way to deal with it is to get dedicated email domain with a bunch of your friends, and hook it up with something like SimpleLogin. But that's gets complicated quickly ;)
However be warned some surprisingly large websites don't support subdomains, for example eBay will silently send user@sub.domain.tld to user@domain.tld and you'll only figure it out by looking at your server logs for rejected mail.
But keep good records!!
It gets really awkward when you’re trying to recover an account and can’t remember what custom email you used.
But the people usually just nod along.
The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
I had one small business aggressively threaten me that they fully owned their business name and I wasn't allowed to use it in my email address.
My solution was to keep my wonderful aliases and dump them. If a business is concerned but nice about it I'll offer an alternative such as plumber@
> The other downside is that it's forward-in only, wish I could proxy responses without setting up a whole new inbox (and outbox).
If you have your own domain most mail providers don't care what username@ you use on your sent mail so you shouldn't need any additional mailboxes (especially if they already offer inbound catch all)
I also use the ReplayAsOriginalRecipientUp [1] extension in Thunderbird which takes the recipient address and puts it as the sender for ongoing communication.
[1]: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/reply...
But to the point of forward-in-only -- I use the fastmail web client and iOS client. Both of these respond using the Masked Email address if you choose to respond to an email. In fact I can choose any of my masked email addressed as I am composing mail to initial communication from that address.
In short, "it just works". I really can't say enough good things about Fastmail!
Could someone clarify why having Sign in with Apple and Hide My Email on the same domain would make a blanket ban easier rather than harder? What am I missing?
Now, they will be "blah@private.icloud.com", so it will be easy to ban the generated/private email that reduces the ability to associate logins across services.
Unclear why Apple would shoot themselves in this way; I hope it's not Ternus complying with anti-privacy.
https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/use-hide-my-email-in-...
I think I've also seen this in Mail.app but that's not shown on this page.
UPD: apperently this supposedly only work if someone message you first. So you still cant spam from aliases.
I've been in the ecosystem long enough to have .iCloud.com, .me, .mobileme.com, iTunes.com, and probably one or two more addresses all assigned by various Apple services over the years before they started unifying the systems.
They all work, and independently of one another.
I wonder if all the domains will be migrated, and how namespace collisions will be handled.
> Existing addresses on the legacy domains will continue to work and forward mail to users without interruption.
It's like blocking anondaddy, simplelogin etc but not protonmail.
You were always able to reserve a normal icloud email address just like you would a GMail account, so banning all icloud email addresses would be banning non-alias Apple customers
That being said, I'm not convinced anyone who wanted to ban aliases couldn't have already. The alias emails look weird enough I'm guessing you could ban them with few false positives.
While this is true not all of them been weird. Some can be just word + number + word without dots or underscores.
Also blanket banning whole domains is just much easier and already done for temporary emails. No false positives.
heave_balks_0g@icloud.com
It shouldn't matter for the sign in with apple because sites are already expressly supporting that.
Email aliasing is hard because you want privacy from a herd of users, but then you're locked into that ecosystem versus a domain you control has no herd, but the upside is no lock-in.
Apple is one of few companies that ia able to push for this with market share.
They already DO do it, I don't know how they're currently determining it
Now Hide My Email allowed you to do just that: Create an account with an email that wasn't tied to your identity, and that you could just decommission if you didn't need it anymore. Sites had no way to detect these either, because all of the randomly generated addresses Apple provided you with just ended in @icloud.com, which is also used by tons of regular accounts - so if you blocked this domain, you'd invariably preclude millions of people from your service.
But by separating the domains, sites can simply add private.icloud.com to their trash mail blocklist, preventing the use of Hide My Email, while regular @iCloud.com addresses will continue to work. It makes the entire service useless at once.
A good example of a throwaway email that is now useless because of these blocks is mailinator.com. Originally, you could just make up a random email on the spot like gregsrightfoot@mailinator.com, visit mailinator.com, and get the needed signup verification email. These services autodeleted messages and required no signup so they were a black hole for spam. However websites eventually got wise that their spam wasn’t being seen and started blocking the domain. Mailinator came up with alternative domains and there was a brief back and forth before the throwaway email domains all ended up being blocked.
They already require that you use Sign in with Apple, I would think that it working fully is also a requirement?
Fastmail also has wonderful random email functionality you can link up to your Bitwarden client or use the Fastmail API.
The addresses are pre-allocated and recycled when deleted so creating a new one is faster that with Apple's hide my mail.
https://github.com/webmonch/hide-my-mail-cloudflare
I personally doing catch-all already, but problem is that using your own domain for website registration basically gives everyone unique id to eaaily connect all the information that ever been leaked for your accounts and something always gets leaked.
Not a very good idea for privacy.
But yeah it mostly opposite problem I would say - spam filters eat usefull stuff sometimes. Just today I found one more job related email in spam, but its from public mailbox damn.
Privacy is kind a bigger issue and having aliases on icloud is just much more convinient than having 10 accounts.
And might be there just no one remain as owner of feature to explain them why its bad idea.
It's actually useful compared to Gmail's useless "yourrealaddress+alais" that gives away your actual email anyway, and it helped me catch quite a few spammers/data sellers.
Hide My Email addresses already have a peculiar format that others could guess, and some do block those, and there's no reason to add a blatant "private." tag.
This is a win for privacy-intruders, not users, just like Apple's iCloud Keychain API that has allowed Facebook, TikTok etc. to secretly track users across multiple devices and device reinstalls for years.
https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5233/